We’re going to try something a little different with this article today. I received a note from Youseph Tanha, a writer for Stargazer’s World that I thought would be of interest to a lot of Dungeon Masters out there. Below you will find my edited version of his note and my response to it.
In summary, we are discussing how to handle hot emotional situations at the table, how to deal with players who worry more about game balance than the situation they’re in, and when the right time arises to change your game around your players. If you enjoy this article and have your own DM questions, send me an email to mike@mikeshea.net and be sure to include your permission to repost the note.
Let us begin with Youseph’s email:
I setup a trap this last weekend. If a particular book was pulled from the library shelf and opened a flash of brilliant white light would engulf the player and cause this person to go blind. Permanently. In my game that’s what happened. The player was so upset that she could not roll some kind of check or save to get her eye sight back. She made the rest of the game difficult to play. Eventually team work with other players helped her through the level and pointed her to bad guys so she could still fight.
Now I am not a total jerk. She will find away through magic or some such to regain her sight and it will be better eye sight then she had before.
Another issue I had with this last game was one player close to death (by close I mean getting down to zero hit points for the firs time) started complaining that the battle was unfair and unbalanced, and started arguing with me on ever move and attack I was making. So much so I started second guessing myself and was changing things around to make this player happy. At one point It got so annoying and ugly I almost called it a night early. His attitude made everyone uncomfortable. Not just me. Which is the weird thing because everyone likes this guy outside of the game. He is the cool kid to hangout with.
It seems like anytime he has come close to death in the past he just gets pissy about it. I have even pulled him aside and we came up with a new character and how he would be introduced should his first character die in glorious battle.
I love Dungeons & Dragons. I put a lot of my own personal time, energy and money in to each game to try and make it fun and exciting for my players. (as I am sure you do too) But man, when stuff like that happens It sucks the life right out of me. I don’t know if it’s my fault or it’s my players or… is this just how it is?
And my response:
I think there are a few things to keep in mind from your note. First, sometimes there are bad nights. Sometimes things just don’t work out, tensions are high and situations don’t work out that well. Sometimes people just lose their temper. I know I have when the bickering gets high and the game drags on. The key is to firewall off these bad nights and just worry about making the next one a good one.
Second, you will want to watch out on the instant death and dismemberment traps. These can be pretty frustrating. There’s a reason that 4th edition has done away with the instant death saving throws. Now with progressively worsening conditions like the petrification or death rays we see at higher levels, players get more than one chance to get around something. Mix this with other character’s abilities to trigger a save and they have lots of options.
Players don’t want to feel like they didn’t have a chance. The hardest thing about running a D&D game, I think, is finding the balance between the threat of death and dismemberment and actual death and dismemberment. Players should often feel like they are at risk, but they never really are. Watch any good action movie and you’ll see lots of times where the main character is hanging on by a thread but manages to pull through. We’ve seen a thousand action movies but we still get excited when a scene like this occurs.
For the trap that blinded the player, I’d say that was a bit too harsh. Better might have been a disease that is slowly stealing her sight if she doesn’t complete a certain quest or ritual. This could be built into the rest of the story. She might start off fine but as the players move forward, she starts to have a harder and harder time seeing. These penalties should be low. Maybe a -1 to skills that require sight to start, then -1 to attacks, then -2, etc. This is the THREAT of blindness without actual blindness.
Players absolutely hate losing things, whether its penalties to their character, lost magic items, or even lost actions in a battle. Be very careful taking things away from people. Even if you give back more than they had, it doesn’t often make up for the loss in the first place. It may also seem that you’re making up for a mistake rather than having a plan in the story even if it was a plan you had to begin with.
For the player who complains when he drops to 0, this is another touchy subject. I’ve certainly had it where my players think that a battle is overbalanced, but it’s rare. My group is powerful enough that they more often think battles were too easy. Still, I’ve had NPCs hit folks so hard they just stare at me in wonder. When they start to complain about the mechanics, I try to bring them back into the story. Consider the following:
Player: “How can an Ice Lich hit for 80 damage with only two shots? How is that even possible? That sounds way higher than any monster should generally hit.”
Me: “Xervius the Ice Lich has practiced magics for centuries. He spent a year learning your strengths and capabilities. His power rips into you harder than any beast you have ever fought. It will take all of your skills and not just a little luck to defeat him!”
This is an attempt to bring players back into the story rather than worrying about the mechanics.
Building a story around your players is something worth doing. It sounds like the reactions you had to your player’s complaints were done on the fly during the game. That’s not always a problem. You don’t want to pick on the same person or make the game not fun simply because the rules say X. Keeping the game fun for everyone at the table is your job as a DM. Always keep that in mind.
That said, one should build encounters around ways to keep your players happy. What do they enjoy? What gets them excited? What do they hate doing and what bothers them? Write this stuff down and reference it as you build out adventures. Our job as a DM isn’t just to put challenges and difficulties in the way of players. We’re there to make sure they have the most fun they can. Often this results in challenges and difficulties.
It is also important for a DM to stay level-headed even when the tensions run high. This is really hard, and I fail at it often, but we have to remember that we’re a facilitator for a story, not the player behind the bad guys. D&D isn’t competitive, it’s cooperative. We have to keep that in mind all the time.
Like you said, we all spend a lot of time, attention, effort, and money into this hobby. We do this because we love it. When a bad game or two comes by, spend some time considering why that game went bad and what you can do about it. Address it with your friends and ask them what they enjoy. They won’t always give you the real answer, but getting a view can help. Accept that sometimes there will be a bad night but don’t let it drag the other nights down.
Above all, remember the rule of fun. It applies to both you and the players and it’s something always worthy of your time and attention.
Great advice!
Thanks for this post Mike! I know most seasoned DMs out there know that these sorts of things happen in every game, but for us newer players and DMs it’s good to see that most tables have the same issues.
I really love that 4e went away from instant effects and permanent ones are more gradual than a single die roll. I also try to switch up who gets the brunt of the damage when my monsters attack. A PC might get beaten up a bit during one session but come away relatively unscathed the next.
Part of me wants to commend this DM for following through with a lethal effect. The players now know you that you mean it. I wonder if they would complain like that if they didn’t know they were supposed to have so many freebies to escape the effect?
For me, I do believe in chances to avoid the effect, but I’m leery of letting the numbers do the talking in this case. Were the players given a chance to know if there was a book that could cause blindness? I’m certainly not a killer DM but I do believe in consequences for my players–if adventuring is supposed to be a dangerous job, then let it be dangerous.
Setting the pissy player aside and coming up with a back-up plan was very good for you, but I would also question him being in the group if he’s going to drag everyone down because he is a sore loser. Absolutely D&D is a cooperative game. He needs to pull his weight or consider being on another team.
I’ll agree with the others who already commented – definitely some solid advice and a great post. The only other thing I would mention that might help is something that I added to my gaming session, which is the post-game debriefing.
All my players know that if they have a problem with a ruling I made, or how a combat played out, or a strange effect that seems unfair, that they can discuss it with me during right after the game. While some players want to voice their angst right away, my players have learned over a few years of gaming with me, that I will always stay a little after the gaming session to discuss annoyances, vexations, and general kvetches about how the night went.
That’s not to say that these post-game debriefings don’t become heated at times – in fact I had a doozy PGD last Saturday with one of my veteran players, but it helps to keep the game moving during the session if players know they can have it out with me at the end of the night.
As an outsider, it is hard to know what exactly to say about this situation but there does seem to be a certain lack of trust between Youseph and his players, in that they are not trusting him to run a game that will be fun for all. Where things like blindness will be able to be overcome in an interesting way and that no one will be ‘unfairly’ struck down in combat.
As you advise, everyone need to remember the rule of fun, and player/GM conflict is not fun. But mostly, I think the group as a whole needs to discuss what they expect out of a game and a GM.
My players have recently had a bit of bad luck when in a close-quarters match against 4 ghouls. As soliders, ghouls have pretty high defenses and are suppose to have low damage. In practice, they hit like a truck. Since the first attack immobilizes and the follow-up attacks from any ghoul will then do 3x the damage and cause a stun. My players got pretty destroyed in this fight. I had to so some tricky stuff to get them to survive.
At the end of the session, the players were complaining that they did so poorly and that the fight was so hard. After looking at things, we realized there were 3 major problems:
1) Their tactics were abominable: The rogue rushed into the center of them first round, then got completely surrounded. Though they could have bottle necked them by making a battle line in the 10ft wide corridor, they ran in and allowed themselves to be out maneuvered.
2) They went in without their full forces! Only 3 of the PCs were present when the fight started. They found the ghouls and were undetected. Rather than go and get help, they decided to attack and get a free surprise round in. I allowed the remaining PCs to show up 1d4 rounds later after the Psion sent a Sending to another player.
3) They had terrible luck on the rolls. I don’t think a PC rolled over 12 on a d20 the entire fight. The rogues sneak attack damage was always sub-par, when he could get it. Because of this we’re considering some optional rules to combat bad player luck…
When it came down to it I explained some things they could have done better to put the odds in their favor, even when their lucks running short. Once they realized how they could have used the terrain for better tactics, and admitted they should have come in full force, they backed down on the “unfair” talk. Player luck is still something we’re struggling with as a few of my players have tended to be rolling terrible numbers pretty consistently.
In the end, I agree that the lethality has to be there, and if the players make wrong or bad choices, then there needs to be consequences to those actions. However, I also agree that instant death and dismemberment is no fun for players at all. A magical disease that blinds someone over time sounds awesome, and I’ll probably “borrow” that idea for a future trap myself!
Lots of very solid advice here. I just wanted to chime in on the instant blindness trap, and ask a question about it.
Did the players know it was there somewhere? I find that traps are best when they generate tension. The problem with a gotcha effect that the players don’t expect at all is that it doesn’t get a chance to generate any tension. This isn’t a big problem when the trap’s effect is relatively easy to shrug off (such as with some damage, or a temporary effect), and will probably cause the players to assume the presence of more traps (generating tension). But a gotcha effect that is both permanent and unavoidable not only fails to create tension, but will probably break immersion due to the extreme consequences that go along with it.
Gotta say that blindness trap was going over-board. The DM might as well have cut off the PC’s head. A few quirky players might find that kind of disability interesting, but most simply won’t want to play a blind character. Unless the player knows the condition is fixable, and how to go about fixing it, they’re going to quickly lose interest. Most players will feel like the campaign is over for them and thats justifiably frustrating.
Granted, PC death happens, but only when terrible judgement and blatant disregard call for it. In this case, the blindness sounds like it was meant to be a story hook. However, the curable nature of the condition should’ve been made clear immediately for the sake of the player’s feelings.
That player who was complaining about being near-death needs to get a clue. Death-saving throws are part of the game, and no campaign should be without them.
I will admit, I don’t normally go for ‘gotcha’ traps because of the apparent arbitrariness of them. That said, if the party knows those sorts of things do crop up in the game I can see them being worked in successfully – with a couple of caveats:
How long is this going to last? The session, a couple of sessions or I might as well write up a new character because this one is to much of a pain to run. Was there any benefit while I was blinded (like immune to medusa).
PC incapacitation and death: I have no trouble of knocking a character down to zero and knocking him down. In general my monsters ignore characters that have been knocked below zero. Players have to realize that the monsters don’t want to die and normally only one side wins. Players assuming they are going to win because they are the heroes does lead to some disallusionment.
One of the best RP sessions I ever had in D&D is when my Dwarf Paladin died and I mean dead dead …LOL He strode into the halls of Moradin humbly. Moradin told him to get the eff out that I wasnt done spreading the word and poof I was back on the Prime plane. It was very cool and no need for a 1000GP diamond for true resurrection.
@Matt K, I really enjoyed your thoughts. Regarding my Pissy Player, This whole experienced has reminded me that we are all playing D&D to have fun. to feel like heroes, is only for a few hours. I do take half the blame for his attitude. There is being pissy because your loosing the game and their is being pissy because the DM was being unfair. After all of Mike’s advice and my own research (read my post I link to at the bottom of my comment) I feel I lost sight of the fun rule.
@Sean Holland, I enjoyed your feed back. Thank you. To keep this short I feel this comes down to the rule of fun. I have been playing with this same group for over a year. I should know what they enjoy and want makes them feel like they had a good game. I feel I more then made up for that at our groups next game. Everyone did have a wonderful time. More importantly this whole event has been a positive learning experience. I have a lot more to learn. But I am off to a great start.
@Brian Engard, My players did not know the trap was coming. I basically placed a book that I knew would be two tempting for one of my players to leave alone. Looking back on the game i feel Mike’s suggestion was better then my own. Where my player gradually loses eye site rather then just BAM! it’s gone.
For all those interested I did a post over at Stargazers World talking about this game in some more detail. If your at all interested check it out: http://www.stargazersworld.com/2010/06/16/the-worst-game-of-my-life/ Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. I have been reading them all.
As a further note regarding the blindness, one of the coolest concepts I learned from the GM advice in the 7th Sea game was letting your players pick their poison. Talk to your players ahead of time about consequences they think would be cool. Playing out adversity can be really awesome. I had a player play a blind spy for a few years, and it involved some great subplots and moments. OTOH, if my archer character had been struck blind, I’d have had him retire post haste. Having him declared outlaw and hunted by the authorities would have kicked ass, but would have destroyed the spy’s concept.
So, with each player, talk about ideas for long-term disabilities/curses/losses/personal entanglements they’d like to deal with. Also, talk about how they want to die. Do they want to die single-handedly holding the pass against an army of orcs? Sacrifice themselves to save innocents? In a noble duel to the death with an arch-rival? Then, make sure to look for ways to include those situations in play. Even if the character doesn’t die, it will ratchet up the tension. And, it makes the storyline feel a lot more personalized.
Also, find ways for the character to work around the disability. Have the blinded character acquire some sort of headgear that provides blindsight, or at least scent. Or, if it’s a wizard, have a power that allows her to temporarily see through a familiar’s eyes. And, you should now set up a combat against something with a nasty gaze attack (or some kind of illusion, or some kind of flare that blinds, or something that uses darkness to obscure the battlefield, etc.), that the blind person is immune to.
Excellent article. Because of it (and others) Sly Flourish has been selected as Stuffer Shack’s Favorite Site of the Month for July!
-Tourq
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