<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Giving 4e an Old School Feel</title>
	<atom:link href="http://slyflourish.com/giving-4e-an-old-school-feel/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://slyflourish.com/giving-4e-an-old-school-feel/</link>
	<description>The blog for building the better dungeons and dragons 4th Edition Dungeon Master</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 20:46:18 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=abc</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://slyflourish.com/giving-4e-an-old-school-feel/comment-page-1/#comment-3161</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 01:45:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slyflourish.com/?p=846#comment-3161</guid>
		<description>Some good suggestions in here.  I really like old school feel with 4e mechanics.

For some more old school feel have people in the world refer to eladrin as high elves.

It&#039;s looking like the Essentials line might help bring some old school feel back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some good suggestions in here.  I really like old school feel with 4e mechanics.</p>
<p>For some more old school feel have people in the world refer to eladrin as high elves.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s looking like the Essentials line might help bring some old school feel back.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Hugh Walters</title>
		<link>http://slyflourish.com/giving-4e-an-old-school-feel/comment-page-1/#comment-1005</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh Walters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 02:00:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slyflourish.com/?p=846#comment-1005</guid>
		<description>Getting rid of the sun-rods is important. PCs need to explore the rooms; there are consequences for wandering into that fog of war. Also you can introduce more sneaking and stealth this way.

As a bonus your monsters can hide in the fog. They can get a surprise round...OR they can listen in..sneak off and tell their masters.

If ppl like to use sun-rods (its 2 football fields worth of floodlighting I worked out). Then NPC are never surprised, are always tipped off as to when the adventurers are coming....oh and no stealth for 20 squares around the party (thats basically the whole map). So they soon learn how lame they are:P

If you use a virtual table top to aid your mapping; things get a lot more exiting when the map slowly reveals. Also with a click of a button you can easily hide the whole map when needed, or throw up a descrption or pic of monster...sounds are nice too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Getting rid of the sun-rods is important. PCs need to explore the rooms; there are consequences for wandering into that fog of war. Also you can introduce more sneaking and stealth this way.</p>
<p>As a bonus your monsters can hide in the fog. They can get a surprise round&#8230;OR they can listen in..sneak off and tell their masters.</p>
<p>If ppl like to use sun-rods (its 2 football fields worth of floodlighting I worked out). Then NPC are never surprised, are always tipped off as to when the adventurers are coming&#8230;.oh and no stealth for 20 squares around the party (thats basically the whole map). So they soon learn how lame they are:P</p>
<p>If you use a virtual table top to aid your mapping; things get a lot more exiting when the map slowly reveals. Also with a click of a button you can easily hide the whole map when needed, or throw up a descrption or pic of monster&#8230;sounds are nice too.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Icosahedrophilia</title>
		<link>http://slyflourish.com/giving-4e-an-old-school-feel/comment-page-1/#comment-750</link>
		<dc:creator>Icosahedrophilia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 23:57:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slyflourish.com/?p=846#comment-750</guid>
		<description>As a veteran of basic D&amp;D (Holmes version), AD&amp;D, and 3.5e, I&#039;ve had more fun playing and DMing 4e than I have had since high school AD&amp;D (I sat out of 2e). Compared to 3.5e, 4e puts a lot of control back into DMs&#039; hands. Sure, WotC churns out stat block after stat block, but I look at these as options for DMs, and as time-savers, not as restrictions.

Good suggestion from Michael Pfaff about how/when to use battlemaps. Not that I follow it that much; I love me my décor.

My 4e campaign doesn&#039;t use XP at all. I award levels as &quot;treasure&quot; for character achievements and reaching key moments in the campaign.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a veteran of basic D&amp;D (Holmes version), AD&amp;D, and 3.5e, I&#8217;ve had more fun playing and DMing 4e than I have had since high school AD&amp;D (I sat out of 2e). Compared to 3.5e, 4e puts a lot of control back into DMs&#8217; hands. Sure, WotC churns out stat block after stat block, but I look at these as options for DMs, and as time-savers, not as restrictions.</p>
<p>Good suggestion from Michael Pfaff about how/when to use battlemaps. Not that I follow it that much; I love me my décor.</p>
<p>My 4e campaign doesn&#8217;t use XP at all. I award levels as &#8220;treasure&#8221; for character achievements and reaching key moments in the campaign.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Simon Newman</title>
		<link>http://slyflourish.com/giving-4e-an-old-school-feel/comment-page-1/#comment-696</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Newman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 08:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slyflourish.com/?p=846#comment-696</guid>
		<description>One thing I do in my old school 4e Vault of Larin Karr game is to use monsters without much regard for party level - my 2nd level PCs have run away from a horde of Orc Warriors and a Roper, successfully defeated a troll and his orcs, a pair of worgs, and a death priest of Orcus.  And they had a PC dangling half way down a 150&#039; cliff grabbed and dragged off by gargoyles.

The main trick to this &#039;imbalanced&#039; gaming is to give the PCs plenty of opportunity to both scout and to flee; use Perception, Athletics etc checks with generous DCs.  Also your adventure area should be more of an open or &#039;sand box&#039; design; not a linear series of encounters that need to be defeated to progress the adventure.

A third point is that you need to accept the likelihood of PC death.  While I allow Raise Dead, IMC it does require a basically intact body, so if your corpse is dragged off by predators that&#039;s you out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing I do in my old school 4e Vault of Larin Karr game is to use monsters without much regard for party level &#8211; my 2nd level PCs have run away from a horde of Orc Warriors and a Roper, successfully defeated a troll and his orcs, a pair of worgs, and a death priest of Orcus.  And they had a PC dangling half way down a 150&#8242; cliff grabbed and dragged off by gargoyles.</p>
<p>The main trick to this &#8216;imbalanced&#8217; gaming is to give the PCs plenty of opportunity to both scout and to flee; use Perception, Athletics etc checks with generous DCs.  Also your adventure area should be more of an open or &#8216;sand box&#8217; design; not a linear series of encounters that need to be defeated to progress the adventure.</p>
<p>A third point is that you need to accept the likelihood of PC death.  While I allow Raise Dead, IMC it does require a basically intact body, so if your corpse is dragged off by predators that&#8217;s you out.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jim Nave</title>
		<link>http://slyflourish.com/giving-4e-an-old-school-feel/comment-page-1/#comment-688</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Nave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 07:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slyflourish.com/?p=846#comment-688</guid>
		<description>Great article and replies. I was JUST pondering how to run a battle w/out a grid. Would love to hear more replies about peoples attempts at this with tips and the such.

Also... would love to read another article specifically about this topic *hint hint* *wink wink*

Love the blog!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article and replies. I was JUST pondering how to run a battle w/out a grid. Would love to hear more replies about peoples attempts at this with tips and the such.</p>
<p>Also&#8230; would love to read another article specifically about this topic *hint hint* *wink wink*</p>
<p>Love the blog!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://slyflourish.com/giving-4e-an-old-school-feel/comment-page-1/#comment-681</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 18:52:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slyflourish.com/?p=846#comment-681</guid>
		<description>@Michael Pfaff

Great idea with the change to exp for loot. I might have to look into trying that out.

I also like the idea of using narrative up to the point when people have to move around. This drives my players crazy sometimes: &quot;Come on, let me pull off the shirt!&quot;, &quot;That&#039;s not a shirt, its a fog of war, and you have to suffer my flavor text first. Suck it up.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Michael Pfaff</p>
<p>Great idea with the change to exp for loot. I might have to look into trying that out.</p>
<p>I also like the idea of using narrative up to the point when people have to move around. This drives my players crazy sometimes: &#8220;Come on, let me pull off the shirt!&#8221;, &#8220;That&#8217;s not a shirt, its a fog of war, and you have to suffer my flavor text first. Suck it up.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Michael Pfaff</title>
		<link>http://slyflourish.com/giving-4e-an-old-school-feel/comment-page-1/#comment-680</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Pfaff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 18:50:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slyflourish.com/?p=846#comment-680</guid>
		<description>@Matt

Forgot to add this in my post, but my suggestion for shifting from the battle-mat to narrative is to use the battle-mat as little as possible. Wait until the last possible second to throw down the minis. Instead use description up until the point where people are drawing their weapons and about to charge into battle. If you haven&#039;t said the word &quot;initiative&quot; yet, do not draw or pull out the battle-mat. 

Use the same method as soon as the battle is over. So, don&#039;t let them &quot;search for loot&quot; while the battle-mat is still out. Throw something over the battle-mat, and then use a transition description to get them back into the narrative... *throwing a region map or something over the battle-grid*,  &quot;Sweat drips from your brow as you cut down the last of the goblin bandits. Standing over the mangled bodies of the goblins, you start to catch your breath and recoup. Now what?&quot; 

They might refer back to the battle-grid, but it&#039;s covered up now, so they need to use their imagination and your description.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Matt</p>
<p>Forgot to add this in my post, but my suggestion for shifting from the battle-mat to narrative is to use the battle-mat as little as possible. Wait until the last possible second to throw down the minis. Instead use description up until the point where people are drawing their weapons and about to charge into battle. If you haven&#8217;t said the word &#8220;initiative&#8221; yet, do not draw or pull out the battle-mat. </p>
<p>Use the same method as soon as the battle is over. So, don&#8217;t let them &#8220;search for loot&#8221; while the battle-mat is still out. Throw something over the battle-mat, and then use a transition description to get them back into the narrative&#8230; *throwing a region map or something over the battle-grid*,  &#8220;Sweat drips from your brow as you cut down the last of the goblin bandits. Standing over the mangled bodies of the goblins, you start to catch your breath and recoup. Now what?&#8221; </p>
<p>They might refer back to the battle-grid, but it&#8217;s covered up now, so they need to use their imagination and your description.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Michael Pfaff</title>
		<link>http://slyflourish.com/giving-4e-an-old-school-feel/comment-page-1/#comment-679</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Pfaff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 18:39:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slyflourish.com/?p=846#comment-679</guid>
		<description>If you really want 4E to have an old school feel, one subtle change could make that happen. Instead of giving XP for fighting encounters/killing monsters, give XP for treasure accumulated much like how it worked originally. 

This subtle change can dramatically shift how the players view challenges in the game. No longer do they see the dragon as their bucket of XP, but the dragon&#039;s hoard, which means they&#039;ll want to get that treasure without fighting the dragon if at all possible. 

All of a sudden that 10&#039; pole might have a use...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you really want 4E to have an old school feel, one subtle change could make that happen. Instead of giving XP for fighting encounters/killing monsters, give XP for treasure accumulated much like how it worked originally. </p>
<p>This subtle change can dramatically shift how the players view challenges in the game. No longer do they see the dragon as their bucket of XP, but the dragon&#8217;s hoard, which means they&#8217;ll want to get that treasure without fighting the dragon if at all possible. </p>
<p>All of a sudden that 10&#8242; pole might have a use&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andy Jackson</title>
		<link>http://slyflourish.com/giving-4e-an-old-school-feel/comment-page-1/#comment-670</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Jackson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 16:39:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slyflourish.com/?p=846#comment-670</guid>
		<description>I wish Wizards would give the discussion a bit of attention. I totally get what they say in various blog posts that the rules don&#039;t preclude any type of play style. 

However this has type of post has come up so often their must be something too it, something ephemeral that is missing. This doesn&#039;t detract from the system as a whole, 4E is great and remains the game of choice but I do think some of gamist elements of the rules focus the attention on a square grid so that the players forget everything not on the table. When this happens some of the Richness of the rpg experience can be lost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish Wizards would give the discussion a bit of attention. I totally get what they say in various blog posts that the rules don&#8217;t preclude any type of play style. </p>
<p>However this has type of post has come up so often their must be something too it, something ephemeral that is missing. This doesn&#8217;t detract from the system as a whole, 4E is great and remains the game of choice but I do think some of gamist elements of the rules focus the attention on a square grid so that the players forget everything not on the table. When this happens some of the Richness of the rpg experience can be lost.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://slyflourish.com/giving-4e-an-old-school-feel/comment-page-1/#comment-669</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 16:19:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slyflourish.com/?p=846#comment-669</guid>
		<description>4th ed definitely gives off the impression that its all about combat abilities and powers (as that&#039;s pretty much what all the rulebooks are full of) but if you put all of the powers and skill challenges out of your mind for a moment your left with a pretty simple old style game.  I&#039;ve been running some 1st ed stuff with my group and some newer Old school stuff and it has worked great. The biggest problem I&#039;ve run into is getting the players (and myself) to shift back and forth from the dungeon tiles to the imagination. When they are looking at tiles they seldom thouroghly search a room and when I&#039;m looking at tiles I often give my descriptions short shrift. All of your article is very good advice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>4th ed definitely gives off the impression that its all about combat abilities and powers (as that&#8217;s pretty much what all the rulebooks are full of) but if you put all of the powers and skill challenges out of your mind for a moment your left with a pretty simple old style game.  I&#8217;ve been running some 1st ed stuff with my group and some newer Old school stuff and it has worked great. The biggest problem I&#8217;ve run into is getting the players (and myself) to shift back and forth from the dungeon tiles to the imagination. When they are looking at tiles they seldom thouroghly search a room and when I&#8217;m looking at tiles I often give my descriptions short shrift. All of your article is very good advice.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
