Comments on: Monster Optimization: Wights + Bodaks

By: Mike Shea

Mike Shea — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 13:14:42 +0000

@Rob Bodine: Combinations like the one above should be used very sparingly. I find that players need a good mix of challenging fights and fights that let them show off their power. A couple of games back my group fought some creatures that were significantly under their level and they really enjoyed it. The key is to have a combination like this in hand for those times when you really need the battle to be difficult.

@DrOct: I’ll do a heroic monster optimization next.

@mike: That sounds like a great combination. I may steal that idea for a future Monster Optimizatin article.

All: If you have other ideas for future Monster Optimization articles. Post them here or email them to me at mike@mikeshea.net

Glad you like the article!

By: Dean

Dean — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 05:02:57 +0000

This is full of Awesome Sauce.

By: mike

mike — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:51:16 +0000

I accidentally came upon one of these combos in our weekend game, and it’s not even a deviously clever one – the Foulspawn Seer (at-will ranged attack dazes target) and the Foulspawn Mangler (encounter Dagger Dance power, it makes 4 dagger attacks, shifting 1 square between each attack. Power also recharges when bloodied.)

The big kicker is that the Mangler deals +2d6 damage when it has combat advantage, which is NOT limited to once a round like a rogue’s sneak attack, because, well, it’s not sneak attack.

I didn’t think too much of this because if the Mangler was flanking and used its dagger dance ability, it would only get one flanking attack before being forced to shift to a different square. It could then attack, shift back to its original square and get CA again, but that’s still only twice.

Of course, that was before the Seer dazed the party spellcaster, who was also being approached by the Manger. And the realization that the Mangler could shift all around this dazed PC, dealing its +2d6 combat advantage with every attack…it was brutal. I felt really guilty, as it reduced the party sorcerer from about 90% health to DYING in a single round.

Still, if you’re looking for a harsh combo, the Mangler’s a great choice with any monster that bestows a CA status to the PCs. If you want the Mangler to dance through the party, “sneak attacking” multiple PCs, the Gibbering Beast’s gibbering effect is also great synergy (and fits well thematically, too).

By: DrOct

DrOct — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:14:53 +0000

That sounds excellent, I look forward to more from this series!

I’d especially like some lower level Monster Optimization ideas as my group is just starting out (getting toward the end of first level) so it’ll be a looooong time before I can throw anything like a level 21 challenge at them, and have it still be something they could even hope to survive, but I would love to have a few sweat inducing encounters for them in my back pocket to bring out any time I want over the next few levels.

By: Rob Bodine

Rob Bodine — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:07:28 +0000

Definitely a good idea, so I hope to see more articles on this, but what interests me the most is the line, “our goal isn’t for the PCs to die, just think they’re going to die!” There’s always a push and pull within the DM’s roll. I’ve always been confused by how power gamers enjoy the game when there’s no challenge. If that’s what they like, that’s fine, but my preference is to know there’s a real danger. Otherwise, we should just call combat, declare the PCs the winner, and move on. Accordingly, I’ve traditionally DM’d the game aggressively, killing characters if that’s what happened, but even pure role-players don’t like character death, even in LFR where it’s relatively meaningless. About a year ago, though, I started to cheat myself, letting players off the hook, and that makes for a more enjoyable game. You’ve helped me shape my thinking on this issue.

For the most part, this post was off topic, but I wanted to say that I like the thinking.

By: Bartoneus

Bartoneus — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 14:18:29 +0000

You are a very evil man, Mike. VERY evil. I will be following this series closely.

By: greywulf

greywulf — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 14:06:22 +0000

Oh I LIKE that!

Looking forward to more combos. I love things like this. Keep ‘em coming!

By: Brett

Brett — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 13:54:30 +0000

Very nasty combo that will wake up any party that has been running on cruise control.

By: Carl

Carl — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 12:20:55 +0000

This is a good idea for a series! I’ve been playing for almost a year, and so far the only MO I’ve seen are the Trolls + Redspawn Firebelcher in the P1 module. This is a great start; will look forward to the next one!

By: HalfAdd3r

HalfAdd3r — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 12:03:13 +0000

SWEET! I agree with the first full lines compleatly. DMs need to have forums on how make the PCs sweat more.

The new Primal Power book has some pretty impressive buffs, and I can’t see the players becoming any LESS powerful.

I will definitely be saving this combo for a rainy-day.